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		<title>What to do about “gay marriage”, part 2</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Chrishubbscom/~3/460785998/</link>
		<comments>http://www.chrishubbs.com/2008/11/21/what-to-do-about-gay-marriage-part-2/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[freedom]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[gay marriage]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Becky observed last night that my post yesterday on gay marriage was rather wordy and not as simple as she would&#8217;ve liked.  So, I&#8217;m taking that as a challenge, and today I&#8217;m going to try to condense my arguments a bit.  Feel free to agree or disagree in the comments.
So, my list of [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Becky observed last night that my post yesterday on gay marriage was rather wordy and not as simple as she would&#8217;ve liked.  So, I&#8217;m taking that as a challenge, and today I&#8217;m going to try to condense my arguments a bit.  Feel free to agree or disagree in the comments.</p>
<p>So, my list of assertions that lead my to my position on gay marriage:</p>
<p><strong>1. While the Bible teaches that homosexual behavior is wrong, the Bible does not teach that the civil government should try to outlaw every sin.</strong></p>
<p>Religious beliefs can disagree with government laws in one of three ways:</p>
<p><strong><em>The law can require behavior that my religion tells me is a sin.</em></strong>  For instance, pacifists who are drafted to serve in the military.  Typically the US has allowed for conscientious objector status, allowing those people to take non-combat roles.  Another example is the allowance in the Constitution to &#8220;affirm&#8221; rather than &#8220;swear&#8221; oaths of office, for those who believe they should not &#8220;swear&#8221;.</p>
<p><strong><em>The law can outlaw a behavior that my religion tells me I must do.</em></strong>  For instance, the law could instruct me not to share my faith with other people.  In this case the Scriptures are quite clear - we must obey God rather than men. (Acts 5:29)</p>
<p><strong><em>The law can allow a behavior that my religion says I must not do.</em></strong>  And here the Scriptures are quieter.  While certainly we know that God wants our rulers to be just and merciful, we don&#8217;t see anywhere that God says &#8220;your rulers should enact all of my laws as laws of the state.&#8221;</p>
<p>1 Tim 2:1-4 says this:</p>
<blockquote><p>I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.</p></blockquote>
<p>Paul says that we pray for our rulers, with the goal or the hope being that we can live peaceful, quiet lives.  And note that Paul doesn&#8217;t say to pray that our rulers would try to enforce God&#8217;s laws on everyone - Paul says to pray for peaceful, quiet lives, and that from that people might come to a knowledge of the truth.</p>
<p><strong>2. If we&#8217;re not going to use Christian (or Muslim, or Jewish, etc) principles to dictate the details of our laws, instead we should base the laws on socially-agreed-upon principles of freedom, asking &#8220;what is good for society as a whole?&#8221;.</strong></p>
<p>Because, really, what other platform are we going to use? </p>
<p><strong>3. Socially-agreed-upon principles change over time.</strong></p>
<p>Just one example out of many: when the USA was founded, the only people allowed to vote were white, land-owning males.  This was the socially-accepted norm.  Over the past two hundred years, society has come to agree that anyone 18 years of age or older, and who is not mentally incompetent, <em>regardless</em> of gender, race, or land, should be allowed the vote.</p>
<p>Those changes didn&#8217;t come about because either people said &#8220;oh my, our voting rules are un-Christian, we need to make them more Christian&#8221; <em>or</em> because people said &#8220;oh my, our voting rules are too Christian, we need to make them more secular&#8221;.  By and large, the changes came about because society&#8217;s views, both Christian and secular, changed.</p>
<p><strong>4. If you&#8217;re with me this far, then we&#8217;ve gotten to this question: is &#8220;gay marriage&#8221; a reasonable freedom to allow?  Something that will be beneficial for, or at least not harmful to, society as a whole?</strong></p>
<p>And this is where the debate really engages.  My position is this: yes, gay marriage is a reasonable freedom to allow, for the following reasons:</p>
<ul>
<li>We can embrace <a href="http://www.chrishubbs.com/2008/11/20/recognizing-the-civil-religious-disconnect-or-what-to-do-about-gay-marriage/">a civil-religious disconnection.</a></li>
<li>State-sanctioned marriage is essentially a specific path through contract law.  When you get married, you automatically get a LOT of legal advantages, things that would be difficult to attain otherwise.  What good reason do we have to say that any two people shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to enter into a contract that way?</li>
<li>Society&#8217;s views <em>have</em> changed, and we may as well acknowledge the change rather than pretend it didn&#8217;t happen.</li>
</ul>
<p>From a strictly pragmatic Christian viewpoint, too, we need to pick which battles we want to fight.  Yes, we want to see each person come to know Christ and become more like Christ.  By fighting this semantic argument over civil &#8220;marriage&#8221;, we aren&#8217;t accomplishing anything other than alienating a large group of people who Christ calls us to love.  We certainly aren&#8217;t helping ourselves gain an audience with them so we can share the Gospel.  Real change comes from the inside out, as the heart changes.</p>
<p><strong>5. The government must protect the rights of private groups to discriminate based on their beliefs.</strong></p>
<p>Freedom of association (guaranteed in the First Amendment) implies freedom of disassociation.  If a church doesn&#8217;t want to perform gay marriages, they shouldn&#8217;t be required to.  If the Boy Scouts don&#8217;t want to allow gays as leaders, they shouldn&#8217;t be required to.  If a religious organization doesn&#8217;t want to hire gays, they shouldn&#8217;t be required to.</p>
<p>OK, so I cut it down to 5 points, albeit with a lot of bullets and lists in between.  Questions? Comments? Snide remarks?  Let it rip in the comments.</p>
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		<title>links for 2008-11-20</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Chrishubbscom/~3/460313334/</link>
		<comments>http://www.chrishubbs.com/2008/11/20/links-for-2008-11-20/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		
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Ron Davis - moreron.com » WordPress Plugins
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Top Ten List: Taco Bell and Men Over 30
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Elsewhere in Dreams » Blog Archive » Ubuntu pushes a lot of updates.
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prayers for blowouts » Blog Archive » PFB Members On … Their College BBall Teams
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		<title>Recognizing the civil-religious disconnect, or, “what to do about ‘gay marriage’”</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Chrishubbscom/~3/459889917/</link>
		<comments>http://www.chrishubbs.com/2008/11/20/recognizing-the-civil-religious-disconnect-or-what-to-do-about-gay-marriage/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

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		<category><![CDATA[gay marriage]]></category>

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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrishubbs.com/?p=1259</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#8217;ve been working through the whole &#8216;gay marriage&#8217; issue in my head for a while now, driven in good part by the discussion over on rmfo.net (you&#8217;ve gotta be a member to read it, sorry) surrounding California&#8217;s Proposition 8.  The evangelically-popular, Dobsonian position is familiar to me, but has always seemed (like most Dobsonian [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been working through the whole &#8216;gay marriage&#8217; issue in my head for a while now, driven in good part by <a href="http://rocksmyfaceoff.net/forum/index.php/topic,65377.0.html">the discussion over on rmfo.net</a> (you&#8217;ve gotta be a member to read it, sorry) surrounding <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008)">California&#8217;s Proposition 8</a>.  The evangelically-popular, Dobsonian position is familiar to me, but has always seemed (like most Dobsonian political positions) to be harmful to the Kingdom; focusing on divisive politics rather than loving everyone and focusing on the heart issues.  Today, though, <a href="http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/11/modernity-faith.html">Andrew Sullivan&#8217;s piece on TheAtlantic.com</a> really solidified things for me; in other words, he said what I&#8217;ve been thinking - only much more clearly and concisely.</p>
<p>For those of you who may be unfamiliar with Andrew Sullivan, here&#8217;s where he&#8217;s coming from: he&#8217;s a relatively conservative gay man.  That in itself gives you some idea to which side of the debate he comes down on&#8230;  but don&#8217;t let that bias you towards him without giving him a listen.  He nails it.</p>
<blockquote><p>[Many long for] a return to the days when civil marriage brought with it a whole bundle of collectively-shared, unchallenged, teleological, and largely Judeo-Christian, attributes. Civil marriage once reflected a great deal of cultural and religious assumptions: that women&#8217;s role was in the household, deferring to men; that marriage was about procreation, which could not be contracepted; that marriage was always and everywhere for life&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>But that position, Sullivan says, is untenable.</p>
<blockquote><p>If conservatism is to recover as a force in the modern world, the theocons and Christianists have to understand that their concept of a unified polis [(state)] with a telos [(purpose, goal)] guiding all of us to a theologically-understood social good is a non-starter. Modernity has smashed it into a million little pieces. Women will never return in their consciousness to the child-bearing subservience of the not-so-distant past. Gay people will never again internalize a sense of their own &#8220;objective disorder&#8221; to acquiesce to a civil regime where they are willingly second-class citizens. Straight men and women are never again going to avoid divorce to the degree our parents did. Nor are they going to have kids because contraception is illicit. The only way to force all these genies back into the bottle would require&#8230; [an] oppressive police state&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Exactly.  My dad said much this same thing in a sermon he preached back before the election (which I still haven&#8217;t posted, sorry, Dad!) when he likened the Dobson-esque conservatives to the proverbial dog chasing a car.  The problem for the dog is when it catches the car - what the heck do you do with it then?</p>
<p>Back to Mr. Sullivan:</p>
<blockquote><p>That way is to agree that our civil order will mean less; that it will be a weaker set of more procedural agreements that try to avoid as much as possible deep statements about human nature. And that has a clear import for our current moment. The reason the marriage debate is so intense is because neither side seems able to accept that the word &#8220;marriage&#8221; requires a certain looseness of meaning if it is to remain as a universal, civil institution.</p></blockquote>
<p>And then he nails it with an example that hadn&#8217;t occurred to me.</p>
<blockquote><p>This is not that new. Catholics, for example, accept the word marriage to describe civil marriages that are second marriages, <strong>even though their own faith teaches them that those marriages don&#8217;t actually exist as such.</strong> But most Catholics are able to set theological beliefs to one side and accept a theological untruth as a civil fact. After all, a core, undebatable Catholic doctrine is that marriage is for life. Divorce is not the end of that marriage in the eyes of God. And yet <strong>Catholics can tolerate fellow citizens who are not Catholic calling their non-marriages marriages - because Catholics have already accepted a civil-religious distinction.</strong> They can wear both hats in the public square.</p></blockquote>
<p>[Emphasis mine.]</p>
<p>I am convinced that this is the right position.  Certainly, Christians need to be free to teach per their convictions on homosexuality, and need to be free to discriminate as to who they will marry, hire, and so on.  (Sullivan argues specifically for those protections in his column.)  But we need to accept, nay, support a broader, freer civil arrangement; an arrangement that allows for freedom for as many as possible to live as their conscience dictates in a way that is consistent with the peaceful, common good.</p>
<p>Putting that civil arrangement in place will provide a basis for the lively exchange of ideas that should be present in a free society.  While it won&#8217;t look quite like what the Founders set up in the United State more than 200 years ago, it&#8217;ll be more what they intended.  Let&#8217;s face it - we don&#8217;t live in 1780 anymore.  We will do better if we adapt the principles of 1780 for the world of 2008 and move forward.  For this topic that means embracing the civil/religious disconnect and supporting state-sanctioned civil marriage for both hetero- and homosexuals.</p>
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		<title>links for 2008-11-19</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Chrishubbscom/~3/459121061/</link>
		<comments>http://www.chrishubbs.com/2008/11/19/links-for-2008-11-19/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		
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Ron Davis - moreron.com » WordPress Plugins
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Reformissionary: Lots-o-Links 11.18.08
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<div class="delicious-link"><a href="http://www.stevekmccoy.com/reformissionary/2008/11/lots-o-links-111808.html?cid=139688216#comments">Reformissionary: Lots-o-Links 11.18.08</a></div>
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		<title>Do you want to play with me?</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Chrishubbscom/~3/458462924/</link>
		<comments>http://www.chrishubbs.com/2008/11/19/do-you-want-to-play-with-me/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		
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Children have ways of saying things that just cut you to the quick.  They don&#8217;t realize it, but you hear the words, and, whammo, they&#8217;ve got you.  Today&#8217;s example: my four-year-old daughter Laura.  
Laura loves her daddy time, and loves to play.  Some days it&#8217;s Candy Land or Chutes and Ladders; [...]]]></description>
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<p>Children have ways of saying things that just cut you to the quick.  They don&#8217;t realize it, but you hear the words, and, <em>whammo</em>, they&#8217;ve got you.  Today&#8217;s example: my four-year-old daughter Laura.  </p>
<p>Laura loves her daddy time, and loves to play.  Some days it&#8217;s Candy Land or Chutes and Ladders; other days it&#8217;s playing &#8220;horsies&#8221; in her room (we each get a toy horse and have pretend conversations!); other times we play hide and seek in the house.  (She always hides the same place: under the covers on our bed.)  And when she wants me to play with her, she always asks the question the same way.</p>
<p>&#8220;Daddy, do you want to play with me?&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;d be so much easier if she asked &#8220;Daddy, will you play with me?&#8221; or &#8220;Daddy, can you play with me?&#8221;.  Because then at times I could respond &#8220;sorry, Daddy can&#8217;t right now&#8221; and just go back to whatever else I am doing.  But instead she asks &#8220;Daddy, do you want to play with me?&#8221; and then I&#8217;m forced to check my motives.</p>
<p>Too often my first (internal) reaction is something along the lines of &#8220;but I was just checking my email&#8221; or &#8220;no, I want to finish reading this article online&#8221;.  And then I&#8217;m convicted.  Shouldn&#8217;t I really <em>want</em> to play with her?  </p>
<p>Time moves fast.  Laura is already four.  Next year she&#8217;ll start school of some sort.  We won&#8217;t always have time to play horsies or hide and seek or Candyland.  When I stop to think about it, I really do want to spend the time with my girls that I&#8217;ve been given right now.  Facebook, email, and blogs can wait.  So I&#8217;m thankful that God can use even my daughter&#8217;s simple requests for Daddy time to convict me of my own selfishness.  So if this blog sits dormant from time to time, or I don&#8217;t respond to your email very quickly, be patient: I might just be playing horsies.</p>
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		<title>links for 2008-11-18</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Chrishubbscom/~3/457927525/</link>
		<comments>http://www.chrishubbs.com/2008/11/18/links-for-2008-11-18/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		
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prayers for blowouts » Blog Archive » Tie Games and Shady Calls
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<div class="delicious-link"><a href="http://prayersforblowouts.com/2008/11/17/strang-passes-houston-in-points-lead/#comment-2138">prayers for blowouts » Blog Archive » Strang Passes Houston in Points Lead!</a></div>
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		<title>links for 2008-11-17</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Chrishubbscom/~3/456717680/</link>
		<comments>http://www.chrishubbs.com/2008/11/17/links-for-2008-11-17/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 03:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Chris's Omnibus LInks]]></category>

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prayers for blowouts » Blog Archive » Tie Games and Shady Calls
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<div class="delicious-link"><a href="http://prayersforblowouts.com/2008/11/17/tie-games-and-shady-calls/#comment-2134">prayers for blowouts » Blog Archive » Tie Games and Shady Calls</a></div>
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		<title>Happiness is…  a new pen.</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Chrishubbscom/~3/456255501/</link>
		<comments>http://www.chrishubbs.com/2008/11/17/happiness-is-a-new-pen-2/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[gifts]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[pens]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[writing]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrishubbs.com/?p=1247</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When we were in Minneapolis last weekend I happened upon one of those dangerous places for me to go in: a pen shop.  
Let me back up a bit.  I have become quite a fan of fountain pens over the past couple of years.  I&#8217;ve not bought any real expensive pens, but [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When we were in Minneapolis last weekend I happened upon one of those dangerous places for me to go in: a pen shop.  </p>
<p>Let me back up a bit.  I have become quite a fan of fountain pens over the past couple of years.  I&#8217;ve not bought any real expensive pens, but have managed to enjoy and then lose two separate <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Lamy-Safari-Al-Star-Fountain-Pen/dp/B0009F1I84">Lamy Safari Al-Stars</a> the past two years - one fell out of my pocket on an airplane, the other dropped off my lanyard undetected last summer.  I&#8217;ve been resisting the urge to buy another one&#8230;  but that resistance proved futile on Friday.  So, I came out of the store with this:</p>
<p><img src="http://www.chrishubbs.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/lamy_l27ef-1.jpg" alt="" title="lamy_l27ef-1" width="600" height="400" class="alignnone size-full wp-image-1248" /></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been using it this morning at work and I had forgotten just how much fun it is to write with a fountain pen.  </p>
<p>Officially, Becky declared that this was my Christmas present from her, so I&#8217;ll say this: thanks, Beck, for the present.  It&#8217;s fantastic.  I love it.  <img src='http://www.chrishubbs.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<item>
		<title>A weird iPod Genius playlist bug</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Chrishubbscom/~3/455984102/</link>
		<comments>http://www.chrishubbs.com/2008/11/17/a-weird-ipod-genius-playlist-bug/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[bugs]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[music]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Nerdy]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrishubbs.com/?p=1245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Discovered this one last night: when I tapped the Genius icon to create a Genius playlist out of the currently-playing song, the playlist it created began with a different version of that song.  It was repeatable, happened twice.
In detail: I was playing &#8220;All the Way Home (live)&#8221; from Andrew Peterson&#8217;s Appendix M record.  [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Discovered this one last night: when I tapped the Genius icon to create a Genius playlist out of the currently-playing song, the playlist it created began with a different version of that song.  It was repeatable, happened twice.</p>
<p>In detail: I was playing &#8220;All the Way Home (live)&#8221; from Andrew Peterson&#8217;s <em>Appendix M</em> record.  I hit the Genius button to create a playlist, and it generated one quite neatly.  Unfortunately, rather than starting the playlist with &#8220;All the Way Home (live)&#8221; from <em>Appendix M</em>, it started the playlist with &#8220;All the Way Home&#8221; from AP&#8217;s <em>Carried Along</em>.  </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t know quite what&#8217;s going on here, but something ain&#8217;t quite right with the Genius.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>I resemble that remark.</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Chrishubbscom/~3/455975612/</link>
		<comments>http://www.chrishubbs.com/2008/11/17/i-resemble-that-remark/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[humor]]></category>

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]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://comics.com/pearls_before_swine/2008-11-16/" title="Pearls Before Swine"><img src="http://assets.comics.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/200000/50000/5000/500/255548/255548.full.gif" border="0" alt="Pearls Before Swine" /></a></p>
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